4×08 “Groundhog Fae” — Episode 34

Bo and Tamsin in Groundhog Fae
Bo and Tamsin find themselves stuck in a time loop during the celebration of Yule. They try to make the best of it and have some fun — until they realize that some of the partygoers are going missing. Meanwhile, Lauren and Dyson, with the surprising help of Vex, debate the consequences of telling Bo about a mysterious package she shipped to herself, and Hale and Kenzi prepare to take their relationship to the next level.

Drink Special: Wassail

1 gallon Apple cider
1 Orange, sliced
1 Lemon, sliced
2 Cinnamon sticks
½ tsp Whole cloves
½ tsp Allspice berries
1 14.9-oz can Guinness (optional)

Combine everything but the Guinness in a pot over low heat. Bring the mixture to a simmer (DO NOT BOIL) and allow to cook for at least 30 minutes. If adding Guinness, pour slowly into the cider mixture, stirring constantly, 15 minutes before serving.

First Impressions

  • Kris: “What the hell is going on?” It’s madcap, zany fun! I enjoyed it. As I do.
  • Annie: I loved their take on the trope of time repeating, the humor, and that the episode did tie in to The Wanderer story arc. I really enjoyed the scenes with Lauren and Dyson talking about Bo and bonding.
  • Stephanie: OH MY GOODNESS! I enjoyed the hell out of this episode. I thought it was a lot of fun and very funny.

Tonight Will Be a Memory Too

  • This episode had a continuation of the theme of memory that’s been woven throughout the season.
  • Tamsin returns and seems to have, if not all, then most of her memories back.
  • How useful will she be to Bo now in finding The Wanderer?

The Car Wash

  • Annie was happy to see the car wash scene in its native environment, though she preferred the song that was used in the promo to the song used in the episode.
  • Stephanie is the one weirdo who doesn’t really like the car wash promo or at least a couple of shots that crossed the line from Bo going about her life being sexy to Bo conforming to what people (namely straight men) have defined as sexy. Stephanie did like the scene a little better in context because it was such a strange, fantasy-fueled episode.
  • Kris gets where Stephanie is coming from, but she thinks there’s such obvious winking and nodding going on that she thinks it’s clear the show is intending to make fun of how ridiculous it is.
  • Stephanie acknowledges the significance that the show queered this moment and showed a woman desiring another woman. But she isn’t sure if women objectifying women is any better than men objectifying women. Should that really be the goal? (Stephanie knows she’s probably crying in a corner all by herself with her feminist feels, and that’s OK.)


  • Not a summertime holiday. Historically, Yule was a midwinter festival, and to contemporary Wiccans and other Neopagans Yule is the Sabbat (holy day) associated with the Winter Solstice.
  • Even though the writers moved Yule to the summer, they retained some of the themes of Yule, namely it being a time of year to face one’s fears.
  • The writers might also be drawing on Yule signifying that even though the days are at their darkest the light is coming back. Bo’s journey this season has been into the dark, so perhaps this episode signifies that she will begin finding her way back into the light.
  • We really enjoyed how the “face your fears” theme allowed characters to speak difficult-to-admit truths to themselves and to others in this episode.

Why Does Tamsin Go through the Loop without Bo Remembering?

  • Kris is always confused about time loops and time travel, but she tries to understand anyway. Why did Tamsin go through the loop so many times before Bo remembered? She thinks the show implies that Tamsin’s kiss clued Bo into the loop.
  • Stephanie disagrees since Hale also seemed aware of the loop before Bo did, and he didn’t kiss anyone but Kenzi. Because Hale, Tamsin, and Bo ate the candy in the gas station, they are the “Yule fools,” and they can remember the loops. The time loop seemed to be localized to the clubhouse. Bo just enters the time loop later than Tamsin and Hale.

Blue Gumdrops

  • Krampus says, “I’ve never made blue candy before.” What do we think are the implications of that statement?
  • Besides the fact that the show likes to say that Bo is special a lot, Kris theorizes that blue is the color associated with succubi. From what we’ve seen of Aife, succubi do not tend to be a very regretful crowd, so Krampus has never found a succubus before Bo with regret enough to feed on.

Tamsin and Bo in Groundhog Fae


  • Kris thinks it’s interesting that in this life Tamsin seems to be so deeply insecure. We see her try to blame herself for the time loop.
  • Tamsin had enough regret for Krampus to stop the time loop when he grabbed her. Next to Bo and perhaps Lauren, Tamsin does seem to be the character on the show to express the most regrets.
  • She was much closer to season three Tamsin in this episode than ever before, but we appreciate that this Tamsin is sweeter and less acerbic.

Tamsin and Bo

  • Tamsin expressed some romantic feelings toward Bo in this episode, though the feelings seem to be a bit one-sided. Tamsin even admits that Bo has a much stronger connection to Lauren or Dyson than Bo does to her.
  • Tamsin is going through a second adolescence. Could her feelings for Bo potentially be a crush? Bo did use the tingly touch on her in “Turn to Stone.”

Tamsin and The Wanderer

  • Annie really enjoyed the flashback with Tamsin and The Wanderer.
  • While Stephanie appreciated the information it provided, she thought the flashback itself felt a bit incongruous with the rest of the episode.
  • Kris was impressed with the makeup Tamsin had available back in the day.

Bo’s Forgiveness of Tamsin

  • Some fans have expressed annoyance that Bo forgives Tamsin so easily for leading The Wanderer to her.
  • Annie didn’t really think much of it, but perhaps Bo realizes that she needs as many allies as she can in this fight.
  • Kris points out that in this lifetime Tamsin was raised by a loving family (Bo and Kenzi), so she’s a different person than she was last season. Plus, Bo has more a protective instinct toward her because she helped “raise” her.
  • Stephanie thinks that the circumstances might have had something to do with it. Bo was trying to save Tamsin, and offering her forgiveness seemed like the best bet. Even if Bo was angry with Tamsin, it’s unlikely that she would want Tamsin to die or to be harmed.

Lauren, Vex, and Dyson in Groundhog Fae

Dyson and Lauren (and Vex)

  • The Dyson and Lauren scenes in this episode hint that maybe these two might be able to wipe the slate clean and potentially form a real friendship.
  • Dark Belch and Choga sweat seem to cure all ills!
  • Stephanie didn’t quite buy that Dyson and Lauren would be so chummy given their relationship the last time they interacted significantly.
    • Kris points out that the opening scene suggests that Bo, Hale, Lauren, and Dyson have been going on missions to find the missing hel-shoe so they’ve been spending time together.
    • Stephanie acknowledges that you sometimes have to sacrifice some scenes to offscreen in a 13-episode season, but she could have used a bit more onscreen time showing the two of them interacting.
  • Annie loves the idea of drunken surgery and wishes they’d shown a bit of it.
  • We think Paul Amos looks very fetching in Bo’s corset.
  • We loved Zoie Palmer, Kris Holden-Ried, and Paul Amos together. The last exchange between Lauren and Vex (“Get that [hand] away from me. I have to put it on you.”) seems like it might have been ad-libbed by Zoie.

Hale and Kenzi

  • They have really won Stephanie over as a couple.
  • All of the condoms (yay for showing condoms!) that Bo gave Kenzi were hilarious.
  • Annie liked that this episode brought up the human/Fae dynamic between them. Will they be as angsty as Bo and Lauren?
  • Hale is hiding his bloody ear– I mean, infected piercing from Kenzi. Where will that lead?
  • Stephanie was pleased to see Hale get to help Bo in dealing with the Fae of the week. She would love for Hale to get a strong, season-long story arc.

Bo and Trick

  • Bo’s relationship with Trick seems to be heading in a new direction.
  • While we could understand that Bo was so happy to have family that she didn’t initially question Trick’s secrecy, we are interested to see Bo become more confrontational toward him.
  • Trick says he is terrified of The Wanderer. Does he have a plan? He seems pretty clueless, but it’s always so difficult to tell with Trick.

Trick and Tamsin in Groundhog Fae

Bo and The Train

  • In the middle of her self-involved rant to Krampus, Bo says that she is running out of excuses not to get back on the train.
  • While this is the first we’ve heard Bo mention getting back on the train, it makes sense that she realized she would have to go back there eventually.
  • Is the jar of black smoke a means to get back on the train? Stephanie first thought that Bo had trapped The Wanderer, but it would make more sense that it’s a method of transport.

Suggestion of Incest?

  • When Bo asks Tamsin if The Wanderer could be her father, Tamsin replies that he spent so long looking for his ideal mate that he would be willing to create her himself.
  • Kris and Stephanie took that line to mean that The Wanderer had impregnated Bo’s mother with the intention of taking Bo as his bride, which is evil and disgusting.
  • However, we admit that we do not have official confirmation that The Wanderer is Bo’s father. It’s possible Tamsin’s memories haven’t completely come back to her or that she meant The Wanderer set events in motion so that Bo would be conceived.
  • Others interpreted that line to mean that The Wanderer sought Bo as his mate and that she is not his daughter.

Stray Thoughts

  • Why did Bo change clothes in the back of her car when she was headed home? It’s really difficult and uncomfortable.
  • Why did Lauren, Dyson, and Hale leave her sleeping in the backseat of The Succ-mobile? Was it the machinations of Krampus that made them so thoughtless?
  • Annie loved Bo’s outfit, Bruce in a toga, and so much of the soundtrack.
  • Episode four with no Crystal. Where’s Crystal? LIEEEEBS!

Share your feedback or ask questions

28 Replies to “4×08 “Groundhog Fae” — Episode 34

  1. You guys are so smart! I totally missed that Lauren must have sewed Vex’s hand on backwards even though I watched the episode twice. I thought she had just repented in advance of her drunken surgery plan and decided to sober up first.

    For the carwash scene, I think it was totally Lauren’s fantasy and then Dyson’s. I think Bo was probably washing the car, but likely didn’t actually blow soap suds at Dr. Lewis, nor did she squeeze the suds onto her chest. They were just daydreaming. This commentary isn’t about whether the scene was feminist or antifeminist, just about what was probably happening in story, though I appreciate Kris’ comment about how she thinks LG is totally aware of what they’re doing and are being cheeky about it.

    D-man and L-woman being friends. Well, I’m kind of glad it happened too, if only that we’ll see a different dynamic between them. Like whomever said, they probably bonded on their many missions to try to find the other Helskor. Off-screening is one of the ways of this show, but on the other hand, I appreciated their conversation in Bo’s bedroom a lot, so I’m willing to forgo ogre-hunting scenes given that it’s a limited number of episodes.

    1. Backward or sideways or maybe missed a couple of nerves that needed to be repaired…

      Yes, I definitely appreciated the suggestion that it was Lauren (and then Dyson’s) fantasy and that the show wasn’t actually implying that a reasonable person would climb on top of their hood and squeeze water over their breasts during the course of washing their vehicle.

      I would have taken other bonding (besides ogre-hunting) between Lauren and Dyson. I don’t feel like quite enough has occurred between the two of them to buy Lauren calling Dyson “family” in 4.07.

  2. With you guys talking about Bo father being the Wander, as possible incest storyline. I was wondering if this might have something to do with, Lauren having to test the Fae blood?

      1. The reason I brought that up was, that when Lauren tested the blood. She found the reason the fae elder was sick, was that he was feeding off his family.

        And now we have the Wander who might have created Bo, to be his mate.

        I am thinking it might be the same guy.

        1. It’s possible for sure, but it seems unlikely to me since The Wanderer has been portrayed as pretty elusive. I’m not sure if he would show up on The Morrigan’s doorstep seeking medical help. At the very least, there’s definitely a recurring incest theme going on this season.

        2. I did find it curious that Lauren specifically uses the word “incest” when she’s giving her diagnosis in 4.04. Until I know otherwise, I’m going to assume that the writers want us to be wondering if there’s a connection now.

          . . . Which doesn’t really answer your question, but I haven’t any answers to give. 🙂

      1. Yeah, sorry! It’s a silly thing Stephanie and I do. “LIEEEEEEBS,” I mean.

        For anybody who may not know: “Liebs” refers to Ali Liebert (twitter.com/AliLiebert), who plays Crystal. Or, as I like to call her, the missing, pantsless half of Hotpantsless. 🙂

        1. I am anxiously awaiting Crystal’s return, too! Maybe she’s still tucked away inside one of Lauren’s moving boxes? The doc should really spend a little more time trying to figure out what to do with her own box than argue with Dyson over Bo’s. Although I suppose the two options aren’t mutually exclusive. 😉

          1. Yes, maybe Crystal has moved from the box marked “clothing” to the one labeled “linen” (also more than big enough to accommodate Crystal, also labeled “fragile”).

  3. In the episode where the doc and crystal were in the cell doesn’t Lauren make part of the “i will work with you” deal that they free Crystal to go on her merry way? I will have to go back and check. Also LOVE the podcast!

    1. Lauren did give the caveat that Crystal could go free, but I’m still curious what happened to her. The Morrigan (if that’s indeed who was holding them) could have very well released Crystal from that cell but might be feeding off her. (Crystal said she wanted to be a singer.) Or maybe she went and bought her farm! I just want to know where Crystal ended up afterward. It also sounded like she was saying to Lauren that she had feelings for her, so I’m curious if she might come back for Lauren.

  4. My thoughts on why Bo forgave Tamsin so quickly where if it was Lauren she may have been angry a longer time…Tamsin made the deal to give up Bo potentially hundreds of years before Bo even existed and Tam didn’t think she would ever be real. When Lauren betrayed Bo (Spybanged for example) Lauren was already friends with Bo and used the feelings Bo had against her. I guess the fact that Tamsin made the deal then met Bo and wished she hadn’t cause Bo was awesomesauce vs Lauren knowing Bo and using her anyway despite the awesomesauce was the difference to me.

    Also how did no one mention that Bruce was sad he broke the machine cause he was too big and wouldn’t get to be candy! I thought that was priceless. 🙂

    Oh! I totally got the creepy incest vibe when Tamsin gave the info bout The Wanderer, though i guess he could have creepy scientist-ed Bo’s mom and implanted little perfect genetic Bo in there to make it less incesty but i totally felt it come across that way too.

    The Loop – I think maybe crampus(or his son) chose the people in Bo’s house to be the loop-ies so Bo didn’t get started in the loop until she went inside. Crampy was hiding in the walls after all. And all of Tamsin’s I already know what happens stories were from in the house. Maybe?

    Ahhh back to work now that i have gotten my nerdsplosion out of the way. 🙂

    1. Thanks for your thoughts, Amelia!

      I agree. I think the fact that Tamsin made the deal long before she knew Bo was a big part of why Bo was able to forgive her more easily. (Though one could argue that Bo would have a pretty good reason to be mad at her since she prepared and threw the rune glass bottle at her. Tamsin knew Bo pretty well at that point.)

      I think Annie did mention Bruce breaking the candy machine when we recorded, but the comment got lost on the editing room floor somehow. That was hilarious. We love Bruce.

      I also agree with you about the time loop. It seemed to be localized at the Clubhouse so Bo didn’t enter the loop until she woke up from her nap and went into the house.

      1. I thought the way the time loop worked was people who ate Krampus’ candy, wasn’t it? So at the clubhouse, it was Bo and Tamsin and Hale – that’s how Bo figured out where Tamsin was, since they all ate the candy at the garage (Tamsin stopped at the garage to buy gum and must have eaten some candy).

        1. Right, the people who ate the candy were the ones who recognized the time loop. But Kris’ question was about why Tamsin went through the loop several times without Bo remembering.

          So my explanation is that Bo entered the loop later than Tamsin and Hale, because Tamsin seems surprised to see Bo before she kisses her the first time. The time loop was localized to The Clubhouse, so Bo entered the time loop later than Tamsin and Hale because she was asleep in the car.

          See? It’s best not to think too hard about these things. 🙂

    2. I’ve often thought that Bo has Lauren on a bit of a pedestal and is, therefore, more hurt when Lauren does something that disappoints/shakes that ideal vision that Bo has of her. I also think that’s part of why Bo seems to forgive Dyson more easily — she doesn’t admire him to the extent that she admires Lauren. Of course Lauren also idealizes Bo and I think that part of the equation for a healthy relationship between the two includes accepting each others shortcomings. Lauren started to do this last season when she acknowledged that Bo needed other lovers to feed on. I’m hoping that when they finally have “the talk” it will help Bo see Lauren more clearly.

  5. Does anyone know what song is used in the promo version of the car wash scene rather than the actual episode? It was also used in another promo for season 4.

  6. just heard the podcast! great one!
    i totally agree with the incest theory of the Wanderer. it’s consistent with, and made even more poignant by the events and revelations back in Season 1
    a) why Aoife would abandon Bo to be raised by humans. despite that Aoife’s a psychobitch, it’s evident that she does love Bo, she knew Bo had to be away from the entire world of Fae in order to escape the Wanderer.
    b) she spoke about Bo’s biological father with pain, and refused to talk about it, which suggests that the memory was too horrific/traumatic.

    if that’s where the LG writers are going with the Wanderer plot, i think it’s fantastic that they’re delving into an aspect of sex that is truly terrifying, even to the succubi Bo and Aoife who clearly do everything without batting a triple-liquid-liner’d eyelid. i think an achievement of LG is that they’ve portrayed very non-mainstream aspects of sexuality – threesomes, orgies, BDSM, even rape (didn’t Aoife rape the Albaster in 110?) etc. – in a very laissez faire sort of way, so i’m pleasantly surprised when they push the envelope by saying that there are things about sex that do in fact shock even the succubi (and so should shock the rest of us even more).

    great insights, ladies!

  7. Quick note about that Tamsin/Wanderer flashback: It brought up strong memories of your excellent film noir conversation back in http://drinksatthedal.com/20. To my untrained eye, it was the perfect noir-detective-at-the-desk-gets-the-job moment. I almost expected the voice over to be something like, “And the Wanderer walked in, all legs and ambition, and made me an offer I just couldn’t refuse…” Just goes to show how insightful Melanie’s thoughts on this were!

  8. On my umpteenth rewatch of this episode I finally listened a bit more carefully to the story Trick attempts to read to Kenzi about Yule, which includes the phrase “the lord of Yule, the son of Hel” (yes, I’m assuming it is one “l” and not two). Since Hel comes up again later in the season, makes me wonder if there is a tie in somehow, if Krampus was used to help motivate Bo to try harder to get back on the train, because it seems like he is more interested in getting Bo to confess her fears than to make her into candy (he mentions facing ones fears to her when he appears earlier at the party). Might be nothing, but the writers are typically pretty good about their foreshadowing.

    Also, loved Kris’s theory that Krampus had never made blue candy before b/c succubi don’t usually do regret (I think Saskia even says something to that effect to Bo) but that Bo is special b/c of her human upbringing. Nice!

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