4×09 “Destiny’s Child” — Episode 38

Bo, Huginn and Crows in Destiny's Child
In effort to answer her lingering questions about what happened to her while she was with The Wanderer, Bo opens the mysterious jar she sent herself. Meanwhile, Trick visits an old friend to help him recover a memory he fears he blocked, and Kenzi and Tamsin try to find out what Trick is hiding.

Drink Special: Leviathan

1 oz Brandy
½ oz Sweet vermouth
½ oz Orange juice

Shake well with ice and strain into a martini glass.

A Crow Left of the Murder

2 oz Old Crow® bourbon whiskey
2 oz Cranberry juice
2 oz Pineapple juice

Shake well with ice, strain into a highball glass filled with ice cubes, and serve with a straw.

First Impressions

  • Kris: Finally some solid evidence about Rainer! I’m really enjoying the slow roll out of the season with the mystery story.
  • Annie: Another what the eff-ery of an episode. Bit of head scratching, head slapping… We’ll see where it goes.
  • Stephanie: It’s difficult to decide whether I liked this episode or not because it ends on such a cliffhanger. I have to see where it’s going before I know if I liked where it’s been. However, aside from some issues I had with pacing, I think it was a pretty good episode.

Bo, Hugin & Munin

  • Mythology: Odin’s ravens
    • Hugin is thought (which he says), Munin is memory (“I didn’t see that coming”)
    • Travel throughout the world and report back to Odin what they see
    • They allude to The Wanderer being Odin.
  • We loved the costumes on all the crows and the feathery eyebrows on Hugin’s wife.
  • We liked the nursery rhyme for counting crows. The number of crows in a group comes with a prediction (mirth, birth, funeral, etc.).
  • What exactly was past Bo’s plan when she mailed Hugin to herself? Did she do it willingly or under duress?

Bo & Leviathan

  • Mythology: Leviathan is a biblical sea serpent/dragon (described in Job 41:1-34)
    • Associated with guarding the gates of hell
    • Bo calls her “fish fingers,” referring to the fact that Leviathan is often drawn as a sea serpent.
  • We liked the scaly makeup on the back of the Leviathan’s hands.
  • Their encounter is very Bilbo vs. Gollum in The Hobbit.
  • Leviathan says “I know you” to Bo, and she knows the “Eyes both brown and blue” riddle about Bo. How does she know Bo?
  • How does she know The Wanderer/Rainer? She knows The Wanderer/Rainer’s mark.
    • Theory! When she says the mark was supposed to be hers, does it have something to do with Trick not allowing Rainer to go to the afterlife?
    • Was he supposed to be her mate or help her guard the gates of hell when he died?
  • SOMEONE IS GOING TO DIE? Who? Trick? Hale? Tamsin? Aife?

Bo & Rainer

  • Rainer put the whammy on Bo, right? (Kenzi called Bo “Patty Hearst” at the top of episode.)
  • Bo attacked Rainer until he put his hand over his mark and her hand on him. What does that mean? Is that the whammy?


  • Isn’t looking too sympathetic, calling Kenzi a “human,” Tamsin a “lowlife,” and Dao Ming a “lowborn Fae”
  • But he does go to Dao Ming to help Bo and seems to have some genuine remorse about “creating all of this”
  • “She’s all I have left of my line.” — Does that mean Aife is dead?
  • Is there a dark side to Trick that he has buried? He says, “I am the first son of this earth. I am the one to be worshipped.”
  • Hugin recognizes Trick as The Blood King. What do we think that means?

Trick in Destiny's Child

Flashback with Trick & Tamsin

  • What’s the sequence of this flashback and the flashback from “Groundhog Fae”?
    • Had Tamsin taken the money from The Wanderer at this point?
    • If so, might that be partially why she wanted to repent? She says that she was a greedy bounty hunter at that point.
  • Trick is at his most arrogant, corrupt dictator self, preying on Tamsin’s insecurities.
  • Why is Tamsin so emotional? Did she know/love Rainer when he was alive?

Is The Wanderer Odin?

  • Odin is the most powerful of the sky gods, and he values wisdom above all.
  • Called “The Wanderer” because he regularly leaves Asgard to wander among humans in search of wisdom
  • Called “Allfather” because he is father to so many gods and goddesses
  • Horses are sacred to him, thus Trick’s horse drawing triggered some fans to think Bo’s father might be Odin.
  • In one poem, he has the ability to inspire all-consuming love.

Still Questions as to Who’s Who

  • Rainer definitely seems to be The Wanderer from the flashback. But is he also Odin? Or AN Odin like Ryan was a Loki?
  • Is he Bo’s father? Since Odin’s nickname is “Allfather,” could it be that Tamsin or someone was referring to The Wanderer as Bo’s father colloquially?
  • Is he the same person who hired Tamsin to find Bo? Or is there another mysterious figure at play? Could it be Trick? He is affected by Hugin’s smoke.

Kenzi & Tamsin

  • Pacing felt off to Stephanie but still some good stuff in there
  • What did Kenzi and Tamsin do to those poor Fae at the veterans’ home?
  • We like Kenzi and Tamsin’s dynamic, but we miss Bo and Kenzi getting up to adventures like this one.
  • It was sad to see how desperate Kenzi was to keep Bo from opening the jar. Why didn’t she get a nice goodbye too?

Bo, Lauren & Dyson in Destiny's Child


  • “I love you both, so much. But right now I need you to watch me walk away.”
  • Bo acknowledges that the triangle situation is beginning to wear on her. She says, “It’s never going to get easier.”
  • Bo’s riddle to the Leviathan encapsulates her dilemma, but is Bo missing the obvious answer? Can she choose both?
  • With the ending to this episode, Annie feels discouraged that she will see a resolution to Bo’s love life any time soon.
Lauren & Dyson
  • Even though they only had a small part in this episode, their interactions are one of our favorite parts.
  • It’s great seeing them work as a team. “Let’s just go get our girl.”
  • We liked the exchange where Dyson gave Lauren a knife.

Season/Series Themes

  • Destiny: even Trick cannot escape fate, he’s powerless to change his nature; Bo says Rainer is her destiny
  • Memory: Dao Ming restores Trick’s memory
  • Family: Dyson & Lauren tell Bo they are her complicated, dysfunctional family

Stray Thoughts

  • Kenzi brushing her hair with a fork! Oh, Kenz.
  • Holy cow. Hugin called his wife a “repulsive quim.”
  • SCIENCE STUFF. And more red (string of fate) piping on Lauren’s blazer.
  • “Fae STDs” made Annie think of Stephanie. Stephanie’s OK with that.
  • Dao Ming is Asian, y’all. She’s ASIAN. DON’T YOU HEAR THE MUSIC???
  • Crystal Watch: Episode 5 — The Leviathan kept calling Bo “Princess” as if to make up for the fact that Ali Liebert wasn’t in this episode. You don’t fool me, Andras. LIEEEEEBS!
Featured Music: Eastern Thought by Kevin MacLeod (Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0)

Share your feedback or ask questions

22 Replies to “4×09 “Destiny’s Child” — Episode 38

  1. I’m still processing this episode and have this nagging feeling that I’m overlooking something about the Leviathan as he/she relates to mythology and what her presence may mean in this episode. Regardless, I really enjoyed her character and do hope we see her again (though I cringe at why we might see her again.) Actually, I have one theory regarding that in light of the possibly leaked (?) promo that’s been doing the rounds on youtube and tumblr: since we’ve now just seen what a Fae graveyard looks like, it seems to me that the graveyard that they show in the promo is not a Fae cemetery but is a human one. I really, really, really hate what that might mean for my two favorite characters, but hopefully I’m very, very wrong. And now I’m wondering – do humans and Fae even go to the same place in the afterlife? If not and the Leviathan only guards the Fae version of the underworld, then it would seem Kenzie and Lauren would be safe – for now. Still, it makes me sad that one of the other characters may be leaving.

    I’ve been on the Odin train (ahem) since Season 3 and see the Wanderer’s locomotive (“the iron horse”) as another nod to the Odin myth. Regarding Hugin — maybe he recognized Trick since he is the Wanderer’s henchman/”son” and — since I’m assuming the Wanderer still knows who he is, despite Trick’s rewriting of history — that Rainer might have corrected the Crow’s memories. Munin, being memory personified, may simply never have forgotten.

    In terms of the timeline and whether or not Rainer/the Wanderer is Bo’s father – didn’t Trick turn Aife over to the Dark Fae after she started a rebellion? Would Rainer have been one of the knights that rebelled with her? If so, did Trick send Aife into the other dimension with him as punishment or did he hand her over to a different Dark Fae and Rainer (assuming he’s Bo’s father) somehow transported her to his plane of existence? I’ve often thought that Aife might have suffered from some sort of Stockholm Syndrome since she almost seemed proud of Bo’s father in Season 3 (“if only your father were here”) yet it had been indicated earlier that he had held her prisoner and possibly tortured and raped her. And now Bo is perhaps suffering from a similar traumatic bonding or enthrallment.

    To end on a lighter note: my partner and I are also on vigilant Crystal Watch, anxiously awaiting her return. May it actually happen and may it happen soon!

    1. Yay! Another Crystal fan! 🙂

      I’ve had the same thought about Hugin’s association with the Wanderer somehow being responsible for his recognizing Trick as the Blood King.

      I think we’re going to have to let this Rainer thing play out. We’re missing too many pieces of the puzzle to get a clear picture just yet.

    2. I’m trying to not read too much into (read: freak out about) that video.

      Aife definitely has some PTSD/possible psychosis from whatever happened to her when Trick turned her over for punishment (if that’s in fact what happened — hard to trust Trick these days). If Bo’s father did assault Aife — people often have very complicated emotions toward their abusers, especially if they are a family member or a long-term abuser. The survivor can remember good things about their abuser or recognize that they share an important relationship, even though they also suffered abuse at their hand.

      I’m doubting that Rainer is Bo’s father at this point, but we’ll see. Even if we don’t find out who Bo’s father is by the end of this season, I hope they do resolve whether or not Rainer is.

  2. I was surprised the know one thought that Rainer, could in fact be Bo’s half-brother, and that the wanderer a.k.a Odin, is their father. I immediately had that thought when the leviathan kept calling her “princess”. It would also explain why Tamsin was so distraught about his death during the trick flashback, and why she’s always felt this connection to Bo.

    My guess is that we still haven’t seen the wanderer, and that Bo and Rainer came up with this plan together while they were both trapped on the train. Would love some feedback on my theory, and thanks for another great podcast.


    1. Given what Emily Andras hinted at an interview (I won’t spoil just in case), I kind of hope that Rainer isn’t her half-brother, but we’ll see. It would be interesting if Rainer weren’t The Wanderer, but the flashback really seemed to suggest that he was. I don’t think Rainer is Bo’s father, but we’ll see if he actually The Wanderer.

  3. Can you please help me understand how Bo went from pledging to give up sex with Dyson for Lauren in season 3, to ‘I love you both’ in season 4? Did I miss something (clearly I zone out when there is no Doccubus on screen)

    1. Well, for one thing, Lauren initiated their “break” in 3.10. I think it’s also important to note that the show has always differentiated between sex and love.

      And (please, no one hurt me) Bo *has* loved both Lauren and Dyson for the better part of the series. Please note that I am *not* saying that the loves are necessarily the same — just that she does love them both, which she has stated and shown in various ways.

      1. Yeah, I think it’s important to remember that Bo and Dyson’s relationship ended because The Norn stripped Dyson’s emotions, not that Bo stopped caring about him. I think the show has maintained that Bo has continued to care for Dyson, and I think in season 3 (especially “The Ceremony”) they even strongly suggested that she loved him. Bo agreeing not to have sex with Dyson in season three was about Bo being in a relationship with Lauren and respecting her boundaries. Her agreement to that arrangement didn’t mean that Bo didn’t still have feelings for Dyson in some way. But I know some viewers don’t think that Bo has demonstrated that she loves Dyson like she loves Lauren.

  4. Hi! It’s friend-Elizabeth! Longtime listener and loudmouth, first-time actual contributor. 🙂 I just want to add to Kris’s already correct information about the TWO Levis story. It’s even weirder/cooler of a story than that God kills the female one of the pair (and fascinating in what it says about ancient Near-eastern views of gender).

    In two rabbinic sources, God created two Leviathans at the beginning of time on the fifth day. But, because together the pair could destroy the whole world, God killed the female (see, like you said) and castrated (yep!) the male. Incredible power in this case is situated in the WHOLE female body and just the naughty bits of the male. Fascinating, right?! (And, for giggles, I should tell you that it also says that angels won’t be able to kill Levi at the end of time, but that it will die in battle with the Behemoth, and then be served as an entreé at the feast of the righteous, which will take place in a tent made of Leviathan’s skin. My job rocks!)

    There’s lots of other versions of Leviathan–seven-headed ones, tail-eating ones, the Job crocodile-looking one, and the word for “whale” in modern Hebrew– but I really like what Lost Girl is doing with it. I generally groove most hardily on LG-twists on mythology. She’s jealous and clearly in a not-nice spot in her life. Job and Isaiah in the Bible suggest that Levi’s been subdued– I see it. Anyway, LG!Levi really wants to get her blue lips on hot-beardy-face for purposes that you guys do a great job of speculating on. I sincerely hope we get to see her and her scaly-ness again. And if they go the whole serving-her-as-an-entree-at-a-feast route, you heard it here first! Thanks for being awesome!

    1. Thanks, Elizabeth! I did actually read much of that information but was trying to keep it relatively brief for recording purposes. (And still we recorded for two hours!) Thanks for adding your much more knowledgeable comments, though! It is fascinating!

          1. Squee! Hi Sally! I’m so glad you asked! Leviathan and Behemoth are such ancient ideas that there are several traditions all mixing and melding in all the stories. If the tradition just has one female Leviathan, then Behemoth is the male counterpart. In the other traditions that have a male and female Leviathan, it’s the land counterpart to the water Leviathan. Bascially, Leviathan is water-chaos and Behemoth is land-chaos. Behe’s a bigger-than-huge creature that sometimes looks something like a hippopotamus. If you look at the description in the Bible’s book of Job, just before the Leviathan, that’s totally what it sounds like– the biggest, meanest hippo you could possibly imagine or maybe an elephant-thing sort of like those in the battle at the end of Return of the King. Sam calls them “Oliphaunts.” You know what I’m talking about. Just HUGE and land-beasty.

            Oh, and along with Leviathan, Behemoth will also be an entree at the feast at the end of the world. Surf and Turf! Anyone? Anyone?

            P.S. I totally know they are Mûmakil in the Lord of the Rings. I know. Love me anyway. 🙂

            1. It’s so interesting how so many different cultures the world over have had the same or similar myths and lore. That means something, either that we’re all human, or there are some universal truths, or that there is a great deal of intercultural exchange, or something.

              And now Lost Girl is getting in on the action with their own (super-hot) spins on all the different parts of ancient ideas.

              I LOLed at “Surf and Turf.” Brilliant.

  5. great stuff, y’all. you have such thoughtful ideas. i am so happy to have joined you.

    i woke up the day after the episode hoping HE is her twin. please…

    enjoy the weekend!

    1. Thanks, Lee! That’s very sweet of you to say.

      While it’s possible that they’re twins, we’ve only ever seen one baby in the flashbacks/vision of Bo’s birth. Who knows, though!

  6. Ok it all makes sense. But why is Lauren participating in this stupid triangle, why not just get back together with Bo? Bo clearly wanted to earlier in the season. Sure there are issues to be resolved, but solve them with Bo, not as part of this unbecoming ‘game’ she’s forced to play with Dyson.

    1. Bo ultimately seemed to reject getting back together with Lauren at the end of “Let the Dark Times Roll” when Lauren tells her that she’s going to “stay with the Dark” essentially, and not pick up her life right where she left off. That caused Bo to tell her “when you’re ready to come back to your real family, let me know” (or something like that), and she looked really crushed when she walked outside the room they were in. I think Lauren is really trying to take care of herself this season, especially in the beginning, so getting back together with Bo isn’t at the top of her list. She’s trying to live amongst the Fae but remain independent and stay off The Una Mens’ radar. Lauren did have reasons for why she asked for the break, and nothing has really changed in regards to those reasons that we’ve seen. Lauren’s comment in “Groundhog Fae” that she “had a good feeling about tonight” suggests that maybe she and Bo have been having some offscreen sexytimes, so it seems to me that while she still loves Bo and desires Bo she isn’t in the place at the moment to try a committed relationship again.

Share Your Thoughts