4×12 “Origin” — Episode 42

Bo in Origin

Bo discovers that a second curse will kill Rainer in a very short while, and they go on a quest to break the curse with the help of one of Rainer’s former lieutenants. In her grief, Kenzi turns to Bo, Dyson, and Vex to help her go after Massimo. Meanwhile, Lauren overhears The Morrigan threaten Bo, but she has a plan to deal with her.

You can also hear some outtakes from this episode.

Drink Special: Unknown Warrior

½ oz Cointreau
½ oz Vodka
1 Sugar cube

Pour Cointreau and vodka into a shot glass. Light the liquor on fire. Hold the sugar cube on a fork over the flame so that the sugar melts into the shot glass. Extinguish the fire before drinking.

First Impressions

  • Kris: I wasn’t sure if my reaction was “wuh?” or “whoa,” but I realized that it was both. I kinda liked it, though I know Stephanie is about to strongly disagree with me.
  • Stephanie: I really did not like this episode. With the exception of most of the scenes with Lauren and a couple of the scenes with Kenzi, I really did not like it. I thought it was a hot mess with characters running around and doing things just because the plot demanded it, rather than because we as the audience understood their motivations or reasons.
  • Annie: Annie joined the recording late so she did not give a quick review, but she had similar reservations about the episode as Stephanie did. Because Rainer and Pyrippus have been introduced so late in the season, she had difficulty caring about the stakes of this episode.

Bo, Rainer & Rosette

  • This plot made no sense to Stephanie.
    • “We can break the curse with Bo’s blood.” OK, I’m with you. “And find Pyrippus!” Wait, what? How does breaking the curse find Pyrippus?
    • “We have to find Pyrippus to de-curse Rainer.” Why? They just established breaking curse involved an alliance between Bo and Rainer/Bo’s blood somehow.
    • “To do that we need something Bo and Rainer shared.” Why?
  • Guess they needed the braid for the handfasting but wish they had taken a more logical route to get there. Shouldn’t the leading question have been “how do we form an alliance”?
  • Wish Bo & Dyson’s handfasting from “Lovers. Apart.” had come into play somehow. Maybe it still will?
  • Mythology
    • Comes from Gallo-Roman religion (fusion of religious practices of the Gauls and Roman religions)
    • Protects horses, donkeys, and mules
    • Might have been leaders of the souls in the afterlife
  • Epona says that Bo’s blood can hurt Pyrippus, she’s a loose cannon
  • Epona says, “If it comes, you will bring death and destruction….Do not play games, betrayer of all. You’re interfering with destiny.”
  • Mythology Revisited
    • Stephanie’s friend Elizabeth who has access to approximately 40 mythological encyclopedias, databases, and bestiaries through her job, cannot find evidence of this beast as a mythological creature. (I also had trouble finding information about Pyrippus on the internet. There is one source on the internet, but it’s on fantasy sites for folks to make up their own stuff.) There are horses associated with Hades/Pluto/god of the underworld but they have names — they are not called Pyrippuses as the internet entry suggests. (Does anyone have evidence to contrary?)
    • Quite possibly the writers are creating this creature more or less whole cloth (Which is great!)
  • Glowy handprints on both Bo & Rainer suggests that they have both been manipulated by Pyrippus
  • Rainer says “The one who’s been manipulating me” in regards to Pyrippus. When was it established he felt manipulated?
  • Why were Bo and Rainer so surprised at the end? They knew their handfasting would release Pyrippus.


From Rosette’s Book

“He shall rise and seek her out — the succubus — the one.”

“If The Wanderer is rescued and the first curse should fail, he shall be cursed again to suffer and perish within seven days of being on this earth.”

When cackling maniacally, Rosette says, “The prophecy has been written: she will rise with The Wanderer as her soldier and together they will release the Lord of Darkness….The Dark Lord rises from Hel!”

From the Book Lauren Finds in the Darkhives

“Behold the demon beast, evil pure. Fanged teeth. Horned. Him they call Rainer. Thousand years shall be ended, he shall be unbound to wreak torment beyond comparison and betray the Fae.”

“The Warrior shall escape his curse. The Valkyrie shall be reborn. The blood of Zamora shall be spilled. The Women of the Horse shall rise. Between the Warrior and the Queen, one of the two shall die.”

“One with eyes both brown and blue. One who shifts. A Valkyrie, too. One with blood that rules the world. One who sings — his life unfurled. A warrior to be her guide. A healer, always by her side.”

  • Does Rainer have two faces?
  • What is this second list about? Are all these people accompanying someone? Is it Bo? Could it be Kenzi?
Zamora Family Code

“Complexity, courage, strength, and beauty
Mindful always of your duty
To ties of blood and those we love
With gentle hands, wings of a dove
Ready thyself, on guard, be keen
To reunite with me, The Queen.”

  • “Queen Bee” talk didn’t actually reveal anything, though the music would have us believe otherwise
  • Does Dyson’s reference to “the one” refer to the hel-shoes?

Kenzi and Bo in Origin


  • We should have had more Kenzi!
  • Dyson & Kenzi
    • Lets her down (just to let her down)
    • We should have gotten a hint of why he spared Massimo
  • Vex & Kenzi
    • Lets her down (just to let her down)
    • Don’t mind the reveal of the relationship between Vex & Massimo but the set up was too quick, too convenient
  • Bo & Kenzi
    • “Of course” reaction when Rosette shows up
    • Bo lets her down (better be a spell on her, dammit) because of her mushy Rainer feels
    • “Unclaim me” — did she really want to be unclaimed? Did Bo fail a friendship test?

Bo & Lauren

  • “I chose you & you broke my heart.” — Lauren did break her heart. Lauren had reasons, which Bo isn’t acknowledging, but she did have reasons. Bo may have been ready to commit with Lauren, but she never said “I choose you,” and Lauren was well justified in asking for a break if she needed one.
  • “Everything I do is for you.” Well, not everything. (And that’s not a bad thing!) “Humanizing” The Morrigan certainly helps Lauren too.

Lauren & The Morrigan

  • She did what? How? Oh wow.
  • Issues of consent

Regarding “Origins”, I’ve read a wide variety of opinions about the way in which Lauren ‘de-faed’ Evony. I have to admit that I’m struggling with it. On the one hand I’ve viewed it in terms of a person who has a VD having unprotected sex with someone who is not aware of the other person’s status….On the other hand, Evony (and many of the fae) feed on humans without consent and, in fact, often kill her victims. We’ve seen Evony do this many times. She has also often threatened Bo’s life – verbally in this episode and physically in other episodes. Lauren has no reason to doubt the threat this time and moves to protect Bo (and others) from Evony. And, yes, I also think she wants to level the fae-human playing field. If Lauren had injected the serum into Evony with a syringe, it’s very possible that Evony would have seriously hurt or even killed Lauren before the serum took effect.

– darkrat

  • What was Lauren’s long game?


  • Yes, as some suspected, he is The Morrigan’s son
  • Also, crazypants
  • What’s going to be the consequence of his swallowing the seed?

Tamsin & Dyson

  • Nothing!!! No follow-up from the last episode! Why?
  • Dyson delivered a nice eulogy.
  • Tamsin telling Rosette, “We just got back from a funeral” — LOVE

Season/Series Themes

  • Family: Bo tells Rosette she can’t help her because her family needs her
  • Destiny: Bo made a statement about finally accepting her destiny. Why did it feel so anticlimactic?
  • Blood/Power: “What is it with my family and blood?”

Stray Thoughts

  • LIEEEEBS! #Hotpantsless forever!
  • Also, Ali Liebert has confirmed she is aware of the LIEEEEBS! cry, and it makes her happy.

Share your feedback or ask questions

40 Replies to “4×12 “Origin” — Episode 42

  1. I am assuming that the funeral attendees were segregated by Dark and Light and that’s why Bo and Tamsin didn’t sit with Kenzi at the funeral (I’m sure it also served to make Kenzi feel further isolated). However, I really wish that we had been given a Tamsin-Kenzi scene. I think after the familial relationship that these two have built this season that Tamsin would have attempted (awkwardly, perhaps) to comfort Kenzi, aka ‘Moms’.

    I also want to thank you for another great podcast! I’m always eager to hear what you all think about an episode, but because I struggled with “Origins” (mainly because I intensely dislike the whole prophecy story-line), I was particularly eager to hear your take on it. I will now forever refer to Pyrripus as Papya Horse.

    1. I got the impression they were segregated into Light and Dark as well. We definitely needed a Tamsin-Kenzi scene. And a real Dyson-Kenzi scene. The people who would mourn Hale the most were sorely lacking in this episode.

      Papaya Horse has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? 🙂

        1. But she was at the funeral as Hale’s fiancee, who is Light. It’s all just conjecture on our part, of course, because they don’t tell us definitively. But otherwise, it’s strange that Bo wouldn’t sit next to Kenzi. Even though Kenzi is upset with Bo, she starts the episode wanting Bo’s help and attention.

  2. effing eff. WTF episode? Thanks writers.

    Love Lauren the Badass. Hate that she shrugged off the dark DARK implications of genetic manipulation, death, and had literally ZERO backup plan when Massimo brought it crashing down 2 min later…apparently off screened.

    She grew, then she gets one shining moment , followed by “beat her the hell up back to whimpering on the floor for god knows what the very next scene” (no context).

    Bo. Gigantic Dinosaur Mess.

    Rainer. WHO CARES? No one.

    Horses, Dad was a horse? Rainer is the horse? Why am I trying?

    Thanks for the recap, LOVE them.

  3. I enjoyed the episode and am not the least bit bothered by Lauren’s actions. If anything, I thought it was damn clever on her part. Was she supposed to have Evony sign some type of waiver form? The very fae that has taken away people’s consent, have them driven mad, wants Bo dead, and even called for the death of all humans last season. I guess to me it’s kill or be killed.

    As far as the episode overall, I loved it! The moment between Bo & Lauren felt almost as heartbreaking as did their break in 3×10, and was just so well acted between them. I didn’t feel that anything was crammed in, but then again I love having lots of new info thrown at me too.

    My only regret for this season is that it’s only 13 episodes.

    1. I’m glad you enjoyed the episode. I’m sorry if I was too ranty about it. I tried to tone it down, but I wasn’t that successful. Obviously, it’s just my opinion, and I’m glad that other folks enjoyed it.

      The way the last of this season is playing out, they definitely could have benefited from a couple extra episodes.

  4. Another great podcast.

    I enjoyed this episode, but agree with Annie that the stakes just weren’t there. I’m alittle confused about Rainer? Are we actually supposed to care about him? I know he’s pretty and all but he hasn’t exactly been around long enough for us to have formed any kind of connection to him.When they started on about the second curse I couldn’t tell if we were meant to care or not (for the record I didn’t) They haven’t really painted him as good or evil…he’s just kind of blah at this stage. Hopefully we get some kind of answer next episode.

    Really looking forward to the season finale and eventually heaing your thoughts on it.

    1. Thanks, Jess!

      Like Annie, I’m also having trouble caring about Rainer, and I’m having trouble knowing if the show wants us to or not. He’s just kind of there. I don’t know anything about him, why I should like him or trust him… And I don’t trust him. It’s funny. I feel like I got a better sense of who Rosette was in this episode than I have of Rainer, even though he has gotten more screentime.

      1. Have you ever had a good friend suddenly introduce you to her new boyfriend, and you’re immediately wary of him because there’s no way he’s remotely good enough for your friend (but, to be fair, nobody possibly could be)? That’s how I feel about Rainer. And that’s before we get to the part where he might also be evil. 🙂

  5. Much like Stephanie I was very much frustrated by this episode.

    Can I just initially say that I am growing tired of protagonists in Supernatural series not being logical. Bo keeps taking all these actions and not thinking things through, only to then gasp at the end when things are going wrong. She keeps talking about her family, but she doesn’t seem to be thinking in the long term about her family. If she knows something bad is going to happen, shouldn’t she at least think this over? She can’t always be right.

    As for Bo/Kenzi, I hate to compare series, but after this episode was an episode of Teen Wolf where the two childhood friends had a very touching scene and the whole cast was very concerned about what was going on with one of them, that it really hit me how neglected Kenzi is. I mean Bo keeps talking about wanting to be there for her, but she never is. It might just be they didn’t show it, but if we show it it isn’t there, imo.

    Some of this might be intentional, but in the end I don’t care because it leaves me cold.

    The prophesies are just so eye-roll worthy. I just ugh.

    As for Lauren/Evony I have a problem with this scene, because its a continuation of this trend of female/female relationships starting with dubious means. Bo/Lauren, Nadia/Lauren, Lauren/Crystal and Lauren/Evony have all had sex at one point or another through lies or for manipulative purposes and it upsets me.

    Great podcast!!!

    1. All of the relationships on Lost Girl have started out with pretty dubious means, haven’t they? When Bo and Dyson started sleeping together, Dyson was “spying” on her for Trick. I’m not saying you shouldn’t feel equally upset, but I don’t know if I would throw Lauren and Evony in the mix with the other f/f relationships though. There was never a trust built between the two of them the way that there was for the other couples. They even conclude their scene in “Of All the Gin Joints” with Lauren saying, “I’ll never trust you,” and The Morrigan is hesitant to believe Lauren when she shows up in her bed. People using sex in dubious ways is certainly a recurring motif of this show, and I think it almost has to be with a succubus for a lead character. I think it’s definitely something that we should discuss on the podcast sometime in the future.

      Like I mentioned in the podcast, we needed more Kenzi in this episode. Even if the show does want to show that Bo is being a bad friend to Kenzi, they needed to actually show that more. I hope we’re going to get an explanation for Bo’s bad behavior, but the longer it goes on the more I worry that we won’t.

      1. I agree totally with the Dyson/Bo issue, but at the same time, Dyson’s sexual betrayal was never a long term issue for bo. Also, I guess I feel that even though Lost Girl does try to keep things even between m/f; f/f sexual relationships I think there are some issues with how they play out/start that makes me give them a side eye.

        Bo’s succubus nature has never really been explored in terms of consent issues because if it did, that would lead to serious implications for Bo, but I for the sake of the show I can mostly excuse that, but for the other non-succubus characters I think it is important because Bo is a succubus and her need for sex is different. Not that it excuses it.

  6. Hey Stephanie, Kris and Annie!

    Great Podcast! And I share the most of your frustrations with this episode. One could say, after Bo abandoning her “faemily” over the course of the last episodes this episode felt like LG left me – the audience, the fan – it was almost like a disconnection. And I really start to wonder if the ooc behaviour of the characters is intended or just really inconsistent writing.

    On the other hand, I think this season was incredible for Kenzi’s and Lauren’s storylines. Even though heartwrenching to watch…these two really came into their own, we saw them win strength, independence, confidence and many other things, but we also saw them fail miserably, loosing (the most) important thing(s) in their life’s. But I think you already said all these things more eloquently than me in your podcasts.

    And now I’ll show my cards, why I’m writing to you (ok, I also wanted to rant a little, bc this episode, gah -.-). I’m wondering if you’ll continue your weekly podcasts after the finale has aired and the podcast to “dark horse” has been posted (LG needs more episodes so just that I can listen to more episode-reviews from you :p)? And if so, are you doing themed-podcasts again? (loved the ones about sexuality in LG)

    Demands, demands…but please read them as a sign of praise and my appreciation of your thoughts and backround-knowledge and doccubustering and basically, yeah…hope you’re having a fabolous day.

    Greetings from germany, fran 🙂

    1. Hi, Fran!

      I’m so glad you like the podcasts. Thanks for the kind words.

      We do intend to continue doing weekly podcasts after the season ends. I even have some topics in mind already including a season 4 review, a season 5 wishlist, how race is portrayed on the show, mythology (that’s a big one that might get divided into a couple episodes), The Dark, sex (yes, again), more Buffy vs. Lost Girl character comparisons, and I’m sure there will be some con reports in there too.

      If you have any ideas for topics you’d like for us to cover, please let us know!

      1. Awesome! I’m already looking forward hearing these and the topics sound really interesting (and a special yay to Buffy vs. LG and the sex tehehe) 🙂

        and I actually have an idea for a podcast, I think your discussion concerning Levony and consent and the morally grey-ish painting in Lost Girl got me intrigued to hear more of your thoughts on how morality and ethics are portrayed in LG. I know it’s another BIG one…to narrow it down. i personally would be interested in each character’s moral code (Lauren’s scientific integrity, on what occassion’s does Lauren not follow her own moral principles, e.g. don’t harm/kill intentionally, don’t use science for your personal gains, science and medicine as a means to help others; or Bo’s moral codex of the savior and helper of the weak and those who can’t help themselves, the greater good etc.; Kenzi – is a tough one, what moral codex guides her? pragmatic without concerns of morality, as long as it serves the cause she persues?) or maybe it would be interesting what moral guidance LG can give us? (I think one thing that always get’s named first is the sex positiveness along with female empowerment) Or for the kicker – has anyone so far come up with a theory on the ethics in Lost Girl? I mean what would the 10 Commandments in the world of LG look like? Don’t harm and kill fellow Fae, but consider humans food and dispose accordingly – There is only one Pyripuss..Papaya horse in heaven, erm in Hel, his thrall is your command and though you shall behave *cough* sorry, that got out of hand…point being: Ethics in Lost Girl, what is considered in the LG-world as just, morally correct etc. maybe also in comparison to our reality and what can we take for our own world from it.

        So, in regards to this episode and in the past, it always seemed you all are grazing this topics, so I would be beyond thrilled to have it in a more compact form!

        1. I’ve been considering talking about the ethics of Lost Girl as well. I just need to figure out how I want to approach it.

          Thanks for the suggestion!

  7. I’m just going to pipe up here for uno momento about things I’ve thought about and ya’ll are welcome to smack me down because some of it may not be terribly popular, just some random musings:

    1. Rainer: I’ve read a lot about people feeling like Rainer is “no one”, he doesn’t have a presence and no one has a sense about him. He is, I agree, a bit of a cardboard cut out. I don’t think that’s accidental though. You know when a friend gets caught up in a new relationship and disappears to go hang out with their new SO all the time? There’s always that frustration at this person who you have NO SENSE OF but who seems to be SO IMPORTANT to your friend. I kind of like that we can’t get any feel for Rainer, we can’t understand who he is or why he is suddenly so very important to Bo. It’s reflective of how her family (Kenzi, Dyson, Lauren, etc.) are feeling. I didn’t like Rainer as a resolution of any kind to the Wanderer (too much let down after too much build up) but I DO like him as “the other guy” that Bo is, seemingly against all reason, totally into hanging out with all the time.

    2. I was saddened that this episode didn’t seem to pay proper homage to Hale. The eulogy was lovely, and the moment Kenzi says “I think I might scream” in all that silence just about ripped my heart to shreds, but….the death of a main character is a very serious thing and I don’t think you can mix in all the heavy plot lifting that had to be done (setting up the prophecies, resolving some unanswered questions, bringing in the horse priestesses, setting up the hand fasting, making Evony human, setting up Massimo and the origin seed, making Kenzi feel abandoned to drive her away from the Fae world, and on and on) AND pay proper homage to a dead main character. This episode was WAY too full to really explore things we all would have loved to see in terms of the immediate after effects of Hale’s death on the rest of his friends. I felt like it cheapened it a little, and that made me sad, but sometimes there’s just enough time, I suppose.

    3. On that note: I really do believe they were expecting to get additional episodes for this season. If for no other reason than because it’s easier to plan TOO MUCH and have to rush a bit or cut things out than to not have enough to fill a full 22 episodes. I assume that contributes to this episode that was way, way too full to really address all the things it should have and keep our emotions engaged. I think that’s what made folks feel like there were no “stakes”, we’re not invested because too much is being asked of us this episode. We just switch off at some point.

    4. I’m a Bo defender, so you’ve been warned, turn back now if you have no interest in hearing good things about Bo: I’m a little saddened that so many folks have such hate for Bo right now. I mean, I do too, in the sense that she is letting her family down (and, as we are an extension of that family, letting us down too). I am disappointed in her, I am frustrated with her, I am occasionally totally stoked to see flashes of the Bo we all know and love (“My family needs me” YES, that right there) and then sad when she doesn’t live up to what I expect to follow (really? You’re just going to wander off when Kenzi needs you?!) I DO just want to point out that who among us hasn’t failed to live the words we say, who among us hasn’t felt too many pressures from too many directions, who among us hasn’t tried our best only to fail the people we love over and over again? Who among us hasn’t gotten so caught up in our own cares (finding our family, meeting a new person, trying to get over our own crazy life experiences) and become disconnected from those we claim to care about? So yes, there’s lots of reasons to be frustrated with Bo right now…but I don’t think bad/inconsistent writing is one of them. That we are all angry at her is actually a testament to how well she’s been written; that we can point to her behavior and say “That’s not OUR Bo” means she was pretty damn well fleshed out for us, huh? She is stubborn, and reckless, and dangerous, and sometimes selfish and she almost never thinks things through…but she’s our Bo and damn it I hope she finds some redemption in the finale because I think she’s great, even when she’s failing the people she loves in spectacular fashion. Because who hasn’t? /rant

    So there ya go. My thoughts on this most recent episode. Some good, some bad, mostly I’m just nail-bitingly anxious for the finale.

    As always, such a fan of the podcast- a great episode with a lot of thoughtful commentary. I love that we don’t all have to agree in order to have meaningful and thoughtful conversations about this show.

      1. Yes. Yes, Kris, I am you from the future. We don’t have a lot of time, you must listen to me carefully:
        Whatever you do, do NOT eat the yogurt.


        (seriously though, I just went back and read your comment. Totally there with ya on the whole Rainer thing).

    1. Just on your point 1:

      I get what you’re saying, I like the point, and maybe that’s what they’re going for. But if they are, they shouldn’t be; I have two quibbles with that approach, which are somewhat related.

      A) The thing is, no matter how much this story evolves to include Kenzi (especially), Dyson, Lauren, Tamsin, etc., THIS IS BO’S STORY. We need to see what Bo sees in Rainer. To forward her story, to move her character anywhere (and as an important player for at least a season, he needs to do this), he cannot be so flat.

      We do get the sense Bo likes being the one in the relationship to be the savior – something she mostly took turns with in regards to Dyson and Lauren, and often felt Dyson’s strength and fae-knowledge and Lauren’s science and diplomacy stymied her – but we get no specific sense of what draws her to him past that.

      That flatness we’re feeling isn’t just what Dyson/Lauren/Kenzi/Tamsin see [and I do like that all four of them have verbally expressed what they do see in / feel about Rainer, that’s great], it’s the sum total of what we’re supposed to feel Bo feels about and sees in Rainer. And so far, it gives us no outstanding reason for her to go for him, to give up her unalignment, to abandon her friends at many points, to essentially sell her soul. These are huge actions and even if her friends don’t get it, we the audience need to understand why on earth she’d go to such lengths. Which brings me to . . .

      B) in a show like this, the audience needs to get more information than the characters. Witness what I touched on in my last review (http://bit.ly/1dFBU0K); we the audience knew Lauren was playing games, even when Bo didn’t. That made it work. The audience shouldn’t get an omniscient POV, but they should definitely be more clued in than the supporting characters. And here we’re just not, at all.

      If Bo’s actual friends are upset she’s hung up on a guy they don’t get the appeal of, that’s great. When nobody has any idea whatsoever what she sees in him, after all this time, that means the writing is simply too opaque, whether intentionally (and they do love them some endless obscuration) or not.

      1. I totally see your point and I’m still on the fence about whether or not it was the right decision to make Bo NOT the center of the story, because for better or worse, that’s what they’ve done this year. I do think there were some compelling reasons they might have felt they had to do it (I wrote a thing over here: bit.ly/1cd2j9O) BUT I still don’t know if it was a good decision. It’s too dangerous to have your main character become peripheral to the emotional resonance the audience has with the show. That’s risking the shows heart in a big way. Like you said, we should be seeing this story through BO’S eyes, not the rest of the characters.

        So, I totally agree with you and kind of half go back on my point, because I DO think they’ve shifted away from showing us Bo’s story in order to tell everyone else’s, which could also be the real reason for our lack of a sense of Rainer. In their defense, telling everyone else’s stories is something many fans have been asking for. Just don’t know that they took a good road to get to it.


        1. Ok. Yeah, I’m with you.

          I loved that we got a little more Kenzi backstory; though I think it’s been wonderfully and thoroughly established in lots of little ways through the years, actually seeing her face her mom and get a little bit of closure there was wonderful. And we got more Lauren story, and got to see Dyson’s past, and even a little bit more about Trick (though I still think everything he says about himself is highly suspect, and I love a show which accepts that a character is not a reliable narrator of his own life). But, I don’t know they had to shift so far from Bo’s story to do it.

          Either way, I hope we can shift back in Season 5.

          1. Yeah, I dunno. I have trouble accepting that it was intentional. We did get to have more time with the secondary main characters (Kenzi and Lauren specifically) without Bo on screen — probably in effort to lighten Anna Silk’s schedule throughout the season — but I don’t think they have used all of Bo’s screentime wisely. (Plus, I still think we haven’t gotten near enough Kenzi this season, darn it.)

            1. Indeed; even foregoing more Kenzi/Bo because of their current schism, I want more Kenzi/Hale, Kenzi/Dyson, Kenzi/Lauren, Kenzi/Tamsin, Kenzi/Vex, and Kenzi/anycombinationsoftheabove.

    2. (I’ve been thinking on your comment, and I might respond to you in pieces.)

      Point 2: I completely agree. We didn’t dwell on this much on the podcast, but I was (believe it or not) trying to keep my ranting down. There was so much to rant about what actually happened that I curtailed the ranting about what didn’t happen.

      I really wish this episode had focused on the aftermath of Hale’s death. I wish we had gotten to see Kenzi, Dyson, Trick — the characters who really knew Hale best — grieving. I would have much preferred that the main quest of the episode be finding Massimo. Instead we got a shortcut (how did they know he was hiding in The Una Mens’ lair?), and then Dyson releases him for no explained reason. I would have much rather Kenzi and Dyson or even Kenzi, Dyson, and Bo spent the episode trying to find him, but by the time they got to him he had swallowed the origin seed and was too powerful to defeat at that moment.

  8. I’ve finally got around to listening to the rest of this podcast and thank you, Stephanie, for the ranting! I’m not really sure what to think of these last few episodes and the insight that the three of you give is very helpful.
    Thank you.

  9. I’m new to this whole Lost Girl show and I’m going back in the past podcasts and listening to some of them. It sounds like Annie is Anniethemighty? If so, Hi, Annie! It’s Angela! I’m loving these podcasts. I am a Doccubus fan totally but some of these casts are good to hear other points of view. Are all three of you Doccubus fans? Or is there a Dyson/Bo fan on this podcast? You all have very wonderful notes and insights to these eps. And I find myself nodding in agreement or at other times, I sort of disagree… But it is a great service that you all are providing. 🙂

    1. Yes, Annie is @anniethemighty on Twitter!

      Annie is really the only shipper amongst the three of us. I won’t speak for Kris, but I’m open to any pairing as long the story is interesting. 🙂

      I’m glad you’re enjoying the podcast! Thanks for giving us a listen. Please disagree with us, and let us know why! We’re only three people — we can’t and aren’t trying to speak for everyone.

  10. I was re-watching Origin and I had this thought…. A reason Rainer was not liked… he didn’t get along with Bo’s friends… he didn’t even try to meet or get along with Kenzi and she is considered Bo’s sister… I knew there was something so not right about that… I think Rainer would have been more accepted if he would have been able to at least try to get along with Kenzi. And so this character was just so not necessary.

    1. I re-watched it and something stuck out to me. Bo had just asked Rainer if they were supposed to get married. Then they show Bo coming in the shack and says Kenzi, I’m glad you’re here. It made me wonder if she was going to ask Kenzi to attend the hand fasting to kind of draw all three of them closer together. I know we will never know, just a thought.

  11. After knowing what happens, I am listening to this ep again and it is so fun to listen to. Re-watching the ep again, and listening to this podcast again, the prophecies make more sense to me… or maybe I just have moments of insight, but I still believe that Kenzi is the warrior… As for the prophecy that Kenzi reads: One with Eyes both Brown and Blue… That is talking about Bo… because even the Valkyrie said it in ep 8 – Groundhog Fae. She said Bo wasn’t supposed to be real… Then Kenzi reads: One a shifter (Dyson), a Valkyrie, too (Tamsin)… and all this is just saying that these are the people in the prophecy. Kenzi didn’t read the prophecy all the way through nor do I think she started at the beginning of it. She was just telling Bo that she was hurt because she was not in it… Kenzi continues to read: One with Blood that rules the world (Trick), One who sings, his life unfurled (meaning Hale who had the since to keep an open mind when it came to humans which he was going to marry one), a warrior to be her guide (Kenzi has always been there to help her and guide her… has she not? She just didn’t see herself as the warrior. But she fought beside Bo always), a healer always by her side (Lauren who has also always been there to help her with medical questions or fae lore when Trick was not an option)… Yes, I thought about it a lot. And still can’t understand how Bo could trust so easily this male whom she had only slept with and never really fought by her side or lived with… from what I understood from the train scenes, it never shows them really living together… only time we saw them together was when they had just had sex or when Bo first gets there. That’s it. So, I still say Bo, in the very least, was under a spell or a Whammy as you all like to call it. Just my thoughts on a couple of the prophecies.

  12. After watching the first two episodes of s5 and listening to your podcast for 4×12 again, I went back and re-watched the episode for the umpteenth time…and it all makes sense now!!!


    I even transcribed dialog hoping if I read it enough times, slowly, that a light would switch on but gosh there are too many “say what” moments including these:

    1. The Pyrripus rising is connected (by Rosette) to the slaying of the Una Mens (which auto-correct wants to turn into Tuna Mens) and suddenly finding Pyrripus is uber important and connected to saving Rainer. (say what?)

    2. Dyson, Bo, and Kenzi pay Massimo a visit, presumably to retrieve the Twig of Zamora and then kill his badly attired ass, but then Massimo is whispering sweet nothings in Dyson’s ear. Next thing we know, Dyson is hauling Massimo back to Trick for questioning. And we never find out what Massimo said to Dyson!! (say what?)

    3. The blood of the enemy (Trick) can break Rainer’s curse == handfasting with Bo! (say what?)

    4. Sure, believe the dude you’ve known for all of 10 mins and his out-of-the-blue general over your ex-girlfriend that you’ve known for years and who loves you and mostly tries to act in your best interest [b/c you’re actually pissed at her]. (*sigh*)

    5. Ok, are the crazy pony ladies pro-Pyrripus or not? Because if they are a) why would Epona have attacked Rosette? b) why would Epona be trying to stop Bo from handfasting with Rainer if that is how Pyrripus will be released? Epona tells Bo “If it comes, you will bring death and destruction.” Well isn’t that the whole point of Pyrripus being released? (say what??)

    6. Favorite line in episode is by Bo “Oh no, no, no. Been there, done that. With a Loki in a cheesy Niagara hotel.” 🙂 Anyone else prefer Bo with Ryan over Rainer? Ryan had fairly limited screen time, too, but I was actually invested in him as a character, understood what Bo saw in him, etc.

    7. Bo tells Rainer “Just to be clear. This isn’t about love. This is about what’s right for my family.” What in the heck does Bo handfasting with Rainer have to do with doing right for her family? Because it will release her father who knows is likely a bad, bad dude given what he did to Aife? (say what??)

    I could go on but I will stop whining now so I can go cry in a corner watching the train-wreck that is 4×13.

    1. I know. The plot makes no sense, and I don’t like any of the developments in this episode even if the plot did make sense. There’s just a lot of head scratching going on for me in this episode.

  13. I hated this episode the most from the entire series.

    Bo. Ok so she basically told her family to kick rocks while she played house with Rainer. Hale dies soon after and she wonders why everyone is still gone.

    Kenzi was hurting so badly she wanted to be unclaimed because they all let her down.

    Dyson couldn’t help because of the secret Massimo told him and he already warned Bo he wouldn’t help her if Rainer was the bad guy.

    Tamsin was still growing back into the fold.

    Lauren. My goodness Lauren. Bo once told her she was always welcome in her home but she too was not welcome. She was off looking up details on Rainer. Essentially staying away like Bo demanded. Once she found what she was looking for and hearing Evony threaten Bo, even though it was Trick Evony was talking to, she headed straight for Bo.
    So she walked in and my goodness the anger in Bo’s eyes should’ve melted her on the spot.

    Here’s the part that made me want to bust my tv. Lol
    They get to talking about Rainer, the one Lauren found looked like Santa clause with horns but here we go with hot headed Bo again. I guess sitting on her bed with Lauren so close set her jealousy mode into overdrive.

    “Why are you doing this? To get back at me?
    I stayed with the dark for you.

    Bo wanted to know her plan. Ummmm. No. Bo’s a succubus, she would’ve tried to sneak in to see Lauren whenever she missed her. Her plan would’ve failed and as I stated in this same post, she would’ve kicked Lauren out because of Rainer, even if they had still been a couple.

    People can debate and say Rainer was a good guy. But to me he was a good plot for the writers to keep Bo, Fae Bo.

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