5×16 “Rise” — Episode 125

Bo sucking a lot of chi in Rise

Bo pretends to go dark to earn her father’s trust, but what plans does he have for her? Dyson, Lauren, and Kenzi figure out Bo’s strategy, and Mark suggests they turn to Vex to go to Bo’s aid.

Drink Special: Bittersweet with a Twist

2 oz Tequila
4 oz Grapefruit juice

Pour tequila and grapefruit juice over ice. Garnish with a twist of lime.

Shownotes coming soon

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11 Replies to “5×16 “Rise” — Episode 125

  1. I had a thought about the “I, Human, Lauren Lewis…” scene… it felt like Lauren was saying her vows to Bo… committing herself to their relationship. It was a bit funny to hear you, Kris and Annie talk about it… Annie, see it as Lauren was saying her vows to Bo… and Bo completed the vows with… “I Do”. 🙂

    1. Right, but it was still very awkward sounding. I think it was the inclusion of “human” and “succubus” that pushed it into really awkward territory.

      1. If Zoie had said it more jokingly, it might have worked for me, but she went serious with it. I understand the choice, but I think it points out that in real life people don’t actually talk like that. Some people aren’t bothered by that, but I prefer more realistic sounding dialogue.

        1. But people do talk like that in real life during a wedding ceremony. The only reason my wife and I didn’t specify our species during our wedding is that we were (and still are) both human. But if I had been a succubus, I would have called that out for sure.

          For me, even though the dialogue was kind of cute-awkward-ish, it also served to underscore the conflict of the nature of the relationship between Bo and Lauren (succubus/human) and how, with eyes wide open, they both acknowledged the messy and complicated nature of their relationship but vowed to commit to each other.

          And in the way that love is when it’s best: not in spite of who they are and the things that make them complicated and messy, but because of it. They love all of each other – not in spite of their challenges, flaws, insecurities…but because of them.

          1. But it wasn’t a wedding ceremony. I get that’s what they were trying to allude to, but it wasn’t a wedding ceremony. The line was fine for a lot of people — I get that. It just didn’t work for me. That’s just my opinion.

            It popped into my head the other day that I might have been OK with the line if they had given it to Bo. It’s so overly earnest, but Bo is an earnest character so I could have bought her saying it. Lauren tends to be much more down-to-earth. Though even if Bo had said it, I think it would have been helped with a bit more playful line delivery.

            1. The characters weren’t in a church or in front of a justice of the peace or a city clerk, but that’s clearly what the characters were alluding to when speaking to each other – a lifelong commitment. They deliberately spoke that way to inform each other what they meant by this reconciliation.

              1. Right. I get that. But it didn’t feel authentic and natural to me. If it works for you, that’s great. I’m not trying to say it shouldn’t. I think the sentiment in the scene is sweet, and I’m appreciative that a queer couple featuring the main character got a happy ending. But even though I got what the writers were going for, the scene went *clank!* for me when I watched it.

                It probably wasn’t necessarily the line itself. In fact, I find a lot of the dialogue in that scene awkward-sounding. But even so, I can think of several tweaks that could have been made to the scene that might have made that line in particular work better for me, such as a different style of delivery, giving the line to Bo instead of Lauren, or having the scene build up to the line rather than Lauren diving into a fraught subject with essentially a wedding vow. I also think they could have made it clear they were exchanging vows without cribbing directly from traditional Christian wedding vows. But as it is, to me it feels overwritten and reinforces my feeling that a shortcut was taken to a happy ending rather than adequately exploring the really interesting conflicts and dynamics between these characters.

            2. I have watched that one particular scene a lot. I think it’s a combination of Lauren being nervous that Bo will say no and or her reaction to having watched Bo go through that episode and all that happened.
              The only time Lauren smiled in that moment was when Dyson walked up. She didn’t even smile when she spoke of Kenzi.
              Almost like a resolved Lauren.

  2. I really feel like this episode was too crammed with plot and quickly resolving so many things plus the whole “future” scenes that it felt like they really rushed it. I don’t want to talk too much about the season because I know there will be another episode for that, but it was the culmination of often uneven storytelling and pacing that plagued the whole season.

    – Bruuuuuuce….it was great to see him but where did he go? He left with the group and then disappears. ‘Cause who would want a strong, intelligent ogre along for the ride?

    – What is with the impromptu tranq gun and the Karen Beattie reference? The gun never comes into play (poking fun at Chekov’s gun?) and who the hell cares about the KB storyline any more (ever)? Where is Crystal? What happened to Lauren’s brother?

    – At some point Bo does seem to learn to control her group chi suck because in 413 and 501 she chi sucks and controls it (I think in 413 she went dark because it was chi from revenants that I assume Hades was controlling since Bo is the Pyrippus).

    – Was there a point to the robe clad elders? If the Fae are trying to stay hidden, maybe they shouldn’t look like they fell out of middle earth. Guess because they were trying to give Dyson something “useful” to do in 515? Meh.

    – Hated that they threw in at the last minute that Valkyrie’s die during childbirth because The Powers That Be apparently felt like a main character needed to die in the finale. Whatever. I hate all the tropes that came into play. Why did Tamsin turn down Bo’s offer to save her? Could Bo have saved her? It didn’t work when Bo tried to give Tamsin chi in 312. I would have preferred Tamsin have died saving the group but I do agree that giving birth is every bit as important as being a warrior but it’s unfortunate because it rides that line of all women are valued for is their procreation abilities. Children are a valuable legacy but they are not the only legacy a woman can have and that’s what felt unfortunate. And Tamsin lamenting the lack of a legacy didn’t come up until 513. Just say no to mystical pregnancies! 🙂

    – I’m glad Bo and Lauren ended up together, but how they got there is also important and that’s where this breaks down this season (more on this in the season overview). I agree that their relationship, in particular, had so many aspects to explore that would provide angst and drama without resorting to breaking them up in 512. Then there was no awkwardness between Bo and Lauren, no glances, no comments, no nothing. There was so much follow up after 108 and then again after 310. Nothing has changed between 512 and 516 except Lauren has had a chance to think about things, mostly off screen and unverbalized. Love the make out scene on the Camaro though 🙂

    – While I think the “vows” did sound rather awkward, I’m not sure it was the human/succubus part. I think that Lauren included those parts because it was her declaring that she gets that she is human and Bo is Fae and what that represents and that she isn’t trying to change that or run from it any more. That said, the whole scene/dialog felt awkward to me and maybe it’s because they were trying to fit a really big conversation into a short scene. Plus Lauren saying that she hoped them being “messy and complicated” never changed was odd—shouldn’t there be growth in a relationship?—but i think the idea is that they are who they are and Lauren is ready to accept them as they are rather than feeling that she needs to change and can’t be enough for Bo.

    – Don’t understand why Kenzi couldn’t be at the Dal since they could have called Kenzi when Mark picked Dagny up. MG said it was because Kenzi had left the Fae yet obviously Kenzi is raising a Fae baby, her best friend is Fae, and she has the ring. Makes. No. Sense. Guess they wanted that big scene with Kenzi and Bo as their final scene.

    – Dyson says they’ve been watching over Dagny her whole life (which has been how long if she has accelerated growth rate? i thought maybe Valkyrie’s age more slowly their first life but I doubt it’s been 10 years) so it sounds to me like Kenzi has stayed in the area but out of Fae life for Mark to find Dagny (and how did that happen? how did they know Dagny was coming into puberty tight then?). Is there still a school somewhere for Valkyries?

    – Would have liked a better indication of Bo and Lauren being together in the future scene. Heck they could have even just had Bo wearing the FTL necklace.

    – Did Hades & Bo seriously not notice very pregnant Tamsin strolling through the penthouse and waiting for the elevator? And where did Tamsin find shoes (she was barefoot in the cage)?

    – So what did happen to Hades? Did Bo really defeat him with love (eye roll)? Was he imprisoned in Tartarus again? Was he sent to Myth? What happened to Persephone since her fate was tied to Hades?

    – When a Valkyrie rises, what do we think happens to her? Does she return to Valhalla like other warriors? At the end of her original last life, Tamsin was worried that she had done so much wrong that her soul was damned. In what afterlife do we think Trick and Aife ended up? Would Trick be considered a warrior? Would Aife? would suck to end up in Tartarus…

    – How was Tamsin’s baby plan B? Hades needed a succubus possessed (?) by the Pyrippus in order to suck the chi out of everyone so Hades could fill them with his will. So how does a baby with a Valkyrie fulfill that? Some have said Dagny was a succubus but I don’t understand how that would happen given how they’ve discussed Fae genetics. Even if Dagny was a succubus, the Pyrippus seems to allow the multi-chi suck so is there more than one Pyrippus? So. Confused. How did Dagny get the glowy handprint since Hades never touched her? We never saw Bo’s handprint until she was on the train of damned souls.

    – Bo tells adorable baby Dagny that Tamsin was the strongest person she ever knew. Previously, Bo told Lauren that she was the strongest person she had ever known. Bo told Tamsin that she had never met anyone who was more alive (313).

    – Biggest pet peeve: name dropping Rainer but never explained how the hell he fit into Hades plan and the storyline! All we needed was a little bit of exposition from Hades about his plan and include Rainer’s role. How did Rainer get a handprint?

    **end rant**

    1. I’m sad that Bruce wasn’t able to be around for more of the episode. It was great to see him one last time, but, yes, it didn’t make much sense why they wouldn’t want him with them when they went to face Jack. It was probably a practical, real-life reason of money and/or scheduling.

      I take your point that she didn’t use the tranq gun, but I think it was appropriate to see the gang gearing up for battle and I think it reminded the audience of some of how Lauren has changed as a character. The gun is a reinforcement of Lauren feeling like she is now a part of the gang and taking a more active role in the fighting. I’m thinking back to “Big in Japan” and “Here Comes the Night” where we see her learn to throw pointy things. Her conversation with Dyson about Karen Beattie also demonstrates that Lauren has become more open and integrated into the group and specifically that she has become closer to Dyson.

      While the robe-clad Elders did stick out on a Toronto street, I think by the time the entire city had been “killed” and “resurrected” that all pretense of trying to hide the Fae from humans was gone. Jack was trying to takeover all humans and Fae to be his army. And they were part of the tiny plot thread addressing the Light/Dark divide before the end of the series, which as I said in the episode was frustrating to me.

      I think I ended up cutting it from the finished episode for time, but I did mention in our discussion the fact that Bo couldn’t revive Tamsin in “Those Who Wander.” I thought it was in keeping with continuity actually that Bo didn’t revive Tamsin, though Annie and Kris pointed out that Tamsin didn’t say that Bo couldn’t revive her. Instead, she says that she accepts that it’s her time for her lives to end and to rise. And I think Tamsin’s refusal was connected to Dagny’s birth and Tamsin feeling like she could rise happily because she had a legacy…which she didn’t seem to care about until a few episodes before. Again, I thought Tamsin was going to die before the end of the series because of the emphasis of her being on her last life, but she could have died in very different circumstances.

      I agree with your comments about Bo and Lauren. I’m happy for them to end up together, and I definitely understand the significance of a happy ending for a queer character, especially one involving the main character. However, the ends don’t justify the means for me. I don’t think the handling of the break up and the (lack of) its fallout this season treated this relationship like the weighty, significant, interesting one that it is. While I appreciate the happy ending for a queer couple, it was difficult for me to have the really happy reaction that many fans did.

      Not to repeat too much of what I said above, I think you’re right about the human/succubus thing. On second thought, I might have liked it better if Lauren had just said, “I, human, take you, succubus,” since the scene was trying to emphasize their making a commitment to each despite the messiness that their Fae/human difference creates. I mentioned that line specifically in the podcast, but I also found a lot of the dialogue in that scene to be clunky. Like you said, I think the big thing that stuck out to me in that scene was that it reinforced my impression that what should have been a complex, evolving discussion was being condensed into just a few lines.

      I wish we had seen the return of the Freedom to Love necklace when Bo and Lauren started dating. Having Bo continue to wear the necklace after the break up could have also done some of the work in post-break up episodes and communicated to the audience that Bo was still in love with Lauren and holding out hope. And, yeah, it would have especially been nice to see it in the last scene to indicate that Bo and Lauren were still together.

      So many questions about Dagny… I was curious about how she could have replaced Bo in Jack’s plan as well. If Bo is any indication, she should have a combination of Valkyrie abilities and Jack’s abilities. Valkyries can take the souls of the dead, but I don’t think we’ve had any indication that Valkyries can kill using their powers. We joked about Dagny doubting someone to death, but maybe it’s not that her doubt kills people. But rather, she could use her doubt to lead people to their death?

      And I’m guessing that Jack was banished back to Tartarus, but I don’t think we got a firm indication of his outcome.

      Yes, we didn’t see Bo’s handprint until after she was kidnapped by The Wanderer in Season 4, but I think that’s probably because the writers didn’t think about that plot point until they were writing that season. Seeing the handprint on baby Dagny is perhaps a retcon that Bo was actually born with the handprint. I guess it’s also possible that Rainer acted like a conduit for Jack and placed Jack’s handprint on Bo for him. So maybe Bo (or someone else) was inadvertently a conduit and placed the handprint on Dagny? But how Rainer got the handprint, I have no good ideas. I’m still not sure how Jack managed to get Aife to Tartarus if she was trapped there.

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